Learning experiences, Moment 1 – Perspective from John Loughran
Moment 1a
Michael:
So, that was pretty interesting, Catherine. There was a lot that was happening between the two of you. But you parted pleasantly. So what was wrong with it?
Catherine:
Well, all the time I sensed Jack was just trying to be pleasant but not engaged. And I really wanted to say a few things, and I just didn’t know how to say them really. So I just ended up making it pleasant as well.
Michael:
And it started really with his continuing to stand, so that he only had a half-baked conversation with you.
Catherine:
So what was going through my head was I’d really like him to sit down, but I didn’t know how to tackle that. And then I noticed that he wasn’t looking at me anyway while I was talking, and, yeah, he wasn’t engaged.
John:
This is such a common situation for many in Catherine’s position. The feeling of wanting to do something but being unable to can be very unsettling. If we don’t act (appropriately and thoughtfully) on that feeling, the sense of unease or frustration can have an unwanted influence on the situation.
Allan:
And, interestingly, I wasn’t even listening.
Catherine:
Weren’t you?
Allan:
No, I just heard words and then agreed with whatever she said.
Michael:
So you were watching your class?
Allan:
Yep.
Michael:
And deliberately watching your class, with only half an ear at best on what Catherine was saying.
Allan:
Yep.
Michael:
Because of the issues that you have got with the whole professional development approach.
Allan:
I guess so, yeah. And obviously this is meant to be a short conversation because I was standing up.
Michael:
So from your point of view, Catherine, what you are wanting to do is to surface that disconnection and talk about it.
Catherine:
It just seemed to be the whole situation seemed not conducive to me saying “Well, come on, we need to talk about this; and where can we go and do that?” But I think if I thought it through, there would be a way through it, but I just couldn’t think of it at the time. And that’s often the problem – you know what’s going through your head but you don’t know how to actually say it in a respectful way, apart from just saying “sit down”.
John:
Speaking in a respectful way is the key point here. There is an important difference between saying what you think and speaking in a respectful way. The latter requires practice because it does not always come easily, especially when feeling at unease.
Michael:
Well, I think there’s a lot of merit in that, because that’s where it seemed to me that you lost it, in one sense.
Catherine:
Yeah, definitely.
Michael:
You said, “Could you sit down?” or something of the equivalent, and he said, “No”, and you said, “Oh, all right then.” So from that stage on, he was only ever going to be listening with half an ear.
Catherine:
That’s right. And I’m not actually respecting where I’m coming from either – that’s what I thought about afterwards, is … I’m desperately tripping over to respect him, but I’m not actually respecting myself and giving myself a fair go. So, yeah. That was quite a shortened conversation of what actually happened, but that was just the essence of how it all panned out.
John:
This point about respect from both perspectives is very well made. There is a clear need for Catherine to be able to respond appropriately to her needs – just as she needs to for Jack’s. Hence, although it might be difficult at first, the discussion needs to evolve on equal terms; this is one way of highlighting the importance of the issues at hand and of valuing how those issues might be addressed.
Michael:
So why don’t you say something a little bit more assertive to him? Or … you could do, or I could have a go playing you, and see what happens. And he could be Jack, or you could be Jack.
Catherine (to Allan):
Do you want to keep doing Jack and I’ll have a go? And then maybe Michael can have a go after that.
//
Catherine:
So thanks, Jack, that was a great lesson. Have a seat and we’ll have a quick chat about it.
Jack:
I’ll just keep standing. I need to keep an eye on my class. They’ll play up if I don’t keep an eye on them.
Catherine:
Oh, OK. Well, that’s not really going to work in terms of really engaging in a conversation. We’ve got some pretty important things to talk about. And I sense that if you just stand up, what might happen is you won’t be able to really focus on it. So what we could do is get someone to look after your class, and we can sit at the back of the room, or we could go out to the staffroom – what do you think about that?
Jack:
There’s no one to look after the class; I can’t leave them here.
Catherine:
Well, Sarah – I had a quick chat with Sarah before; she said she doesn’t mind.
Jack:
Oh, did she? Oh, yeah, OK.
Catherine:
Is that all right?
Jack:
Sure, yep.
//
Catherine:
What do you think about that?
Moment 1b
Michael:
Yeah, well, I mean he’s sitting down! But I was just thinking that, as he did that, what’s still sitting there is an unwillingness to really engage with you in the conversation that you haven’t confronted. So he’s sitting down, but he’s still … what he is probably doing is thinking “She’s trapped me a little bit, but I still don’t want to really be here.”
Catherine:
Is that how you felt?
Allan:
Yep, definitely.
John:
This is an interesting point. Sometimes, the immediate issue (sitting down) is resolved but underlying tensions may be ignored or, worse, exacerbated. Being sensitive to such competing agendas becomes important in shaping how we work in such situations. This is not easy because it requires an ability to look at the situation while at the same time taking part in it.
Michael:
Well, Jack, thanks for letting me watch the lesson. As we talked about before, I want to have a talk about how that went and where we go from here. So grab a seat, and we’ll have a conversation.
Jack:
I just want to stay standing so I can keep an eye on the class. ‘Cause they’ll play up if I don’t keep an eye on them.
Michael:
Well, I can understand that, but that’s not going to work for me, because the things I want to talk with you about are very important from my perspective. And it’s not going to work with you legitimately having half a brain on the kids and only half a brain on me. So we need to find some other way of handling that. It may be possible to find a reliever. I’ve talked with Sarah, and she is happy to watch your class while we have a chat.
Jack:
Yep, OK.
Michael:
And you’re happy to give me that time, so you can focus on it then?
Jack:
OK, yeah.
Michael:
Sure?
Jack:
Yep.
Michael
Sure?
Jack:
Yeah, that’s fine.
//
Catherine:
What was different? I don’t understand what was different?
Moment 1c
Allan:
It felt a little bit different. I felt less coerced, and it was ... I felt it was more reasonable for me that second time than it was the first time. The first time, I was just doing it because you kind of trapped me a little bit. And I don’t know what the difference was; it was quite subtle.
John:
Allan’s use of the word “coerced” provides an important clue. The need or desire to hold a person in a situation can be so strong that an unwitting outcome is coercion. This becomes an additional barrier to real progress because it almost inevitably means that the likelihood of an open and honest approach to the situation is dramatically diminished.
Michael:
I don’t know what it was, either. But what it might have been was, say, I may have been clearer than you about making sure that you were committing to that agreement, rather than complying with my suggestion. It’s a bit ridiculous to, so I pushed you … You only pushed him twice to make sure; I pushed him three times, and I elevated my voice a bit more each time to see “Are you really sure about this? This is going to be a serious conversation.”
Catherine:
So it’s the checking out.
Michael:
So you had to bring yourself to it more each time; and each time you bring yourself to it, it’s less being compliant with what I want.
Allan:
And the other thing that you did is you said why it was, that it was significant to you. And so there was that sense that, OK, that’s reasonable for Michael’s benefit to do this, ‘cause he said, “This is something that is quite important for me – ‘cause I consider this an important conversation. And so that is what would work for me, so I’d really like to find a way around it.” And so there were probably greater rationales around why I should.
Catherine:
Is that the “respect yourself” bit of it?
Michael:
So part of that is also making it visible to the other person, by saying, “This is important to me. I don’t care at this moment whether it’s important to you or not, it’s important to me. And I only want to have a conversation that’s important to me in ways that reflect that importance. But, simultaneously, I also want a conversation that’s important to you.”
John:
This approach of practising, debriefing, and then practising again is key to developing deeper understandings of our behaviours and to learning to adjust them appropriately to avoid the barriers that we sometimes accidentally create in a situation. As the discussion illustrates, although Catherine had a particular agenda to work through with Jack, some of the ways in which she initially approached the task created new obstacles to getting to the heart of the issue. Therefore, retracing her steps, working through the situation, debriefing, and trying again have been important in not only seeing what she could do differently but also in experiencing what a more effective approach feels like.
